Slot Machine Odds At Indian Casinos
by John Robison
Do the slot machines on the ends of aisles pay better than the machines in the middle? How about the machines near the table games? They’re tight, right? And are the machines near the coin redemption booths loose? Join us on our journey for finding loose slot machines.
The loose slot machine is the slot player’s Holy Grail. Much as King Arthur’s Knights of the Round Table searched Britain for the Holy Grail of myth, slot players search casinos for loose machines. Slot players have formulated many theories about where casinos place their loose machines to aid them in their quest.
Before we can figure out where the loose machines are, we have to figure out what they are. There is no U.S.D.A. system for grading the looseness of machines and no national or international standard that determines whether a machine is tight or loose.
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So, what is a loose slot machine?
Say we have two 94% payback machines. Are they loose? I bet some people say yes and some say no. Why isn’t there agreement? Let me add a little more information to the scenario to see if it gives you an idea of why one person calls a 94% payback machine loose and another calls it tight. What if I told you that one machine was a nickel machine and the other a dollar machine? For most people who play nickel machines, a 94% machine is among the best-paying machines in their area. For most people who play dollar machines, on the other hand, a 94% machine is among the worst-paying machines in their area. The person who called 94% loose probably plays lower-denomination machines, while the person who called 94% tight probably plays higher-denomination machines.
Let me add one more piece of information. The dollar machine is a video poker machine. Dollar video poker players would rather have root canals on all their teeth with no anesthesia while their fingernails and toenails are ripped off than play a 94% payback machine. They have many adjectives for a 94% payback machine, but loose is not one of them.
You see, loose isn’t an absolute. Looseness depends on your frame of reference. Looseness is actually a comparison. We shouldn’t say “loose.” We should really say “looser”. We should really be asking where the looser machines are. But let’s bow to common usage and continue using the term loose machine.
Apr 05, 2013 Basically, it was a workaround to get slots into Indian casinos. For the casual player, thinking about it as bingo will just put you on the wrong track. These are to bingo what video poker is to live poker. Only the underlying odds (to be used by the software via an RNG) are the same as the original game. Everything else is different. How to Find a Loose Slot Machine at a Casino. Many people enjoy slot machines for their ease of use and exciting possibilities. If you love playing slot machines and want to get serious about winning, you need to find a loose slot machine. A loose slot machine is a machine that has a higher than average payout. That’s not because you’ve changed the odds of winning, though—it’s because you’ve made fewer bets per hour. Playing with your slots club card decreases your chances of winning. The theory is that the casinos want you to win less in order to recoup the perks and rebates that you receive from playing with the slot machine club.
So, what is a loose machine?
Quite simply, a loose machine is a machine that has a higher long-term payback percentage than another machine. The loose machines in a casino are those machines that have the highest paybacks. These are the machines that will take the smallest bites out of your bankroll in the long run. No wonder slot players are constantly searching for them.
Over the years, players have developed a number of theories about finding loose slot machines. Casinos place loose machines near the entrances, for example, so passersby can see players winning and are enticed to enter the casino and try their luck. The loose machines are also at the ends of the aisles to draw players into the aisle, where the tight machines are.
And, of course, a loose machine is always surrounded by tight machines. You never have two loose machines side by side. That’s done for players who like to play more than one machine at a time. If they should happen to stumble upon one of the loose machines, they’ll be pumping their winnings from it into the tight machines around it.
More theories. The machines near the table games are tight because table games players don’t want to hear a lot of bells and buzzers going off and happy slot players whooping it up after a big win. Another reason the machines near the table games are tight is because table games players will occasionally drop a few coins into a slot machine and they don’t expect to win anything, so why give them a high payback.
Similarly, the machines near the buffet and show lines are tight. People waiting in line are just killing time and getting rid of their spare change. They’re not going to play for a long time or develop a relationship with those machines, so the machines can be like piggy banks – for the casino! Money goes in and rarely comes back out.
The machines near the coin redemption booths, on the other hand, are loose. Players waiting in line for coin redemption are slot players and the casino wants them to see other players winning. Seeing all those players winning will make them anxious to get back on the slot floor to try their luck again.
Finally, finding loose machines in highly visible locations is most likely. Again, casinos want players to see players winning and be enticed into trying to get a piece of the casino’s bankroll themselves.
These are the theories I can think of off the top of my head. Maybe you know of some others. Most of the theories have a basis in psychology. When we see others winning, we’ll want to play too because 1) we’re greedy, 2) we’re envious, or 3) we see that at least some machines really do pay off and if we keep trying we might find one too.
Based on my own discussions with slot directors, interviews with slot directors, and seminars I’ve attended, I don’t think these theories are relevant in today’s slot world. To see why, we have to look at how slot machines and slot floors have changed.
Picture a slot floor of 10-20 years ago. Even if you don’t go back that far, I’m sure you’ve seen pictures on TV or in books. The slot machines on a casino floor in that era are arranged in long rows, much like products out for sale in a supermarket aisle. There’s no imagination used in placing the machines on the floor. The machines are placed using cold, mechanical precision.
On page 193 in Slot Machines: A Pictorial History of the First 100 Years by Marshall Fey, there’s a great picture of Bally’s casino floor in Atlantic City that illustrates my point. The picture shows hundreds of slot machines all lined up in perfect rows like little soldiers. The caption reads, “Like a Nebraska cornfield, rows upon rows of Bally slots extend as far as the eye can see.”
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Compare that image with the slot floor layout at a casino that was designed in the last five or so years. Studies have shown that players feel very uncomfortable playing in long aisles. They feel trapped when they’re playing in the middle of a long aisle, particularly if the casino is crowded. As a result, modern casinos have shorter aisles and when a long aisle can’t be avoided, it will be wider than others so players won’t feel like they can’t get out.
One of the finding loose machines theories has casinos placing loose machines at the ends of aisles to draw people into the aisles. Having shorter aisles means having more machines at the ends of those aisles. Can all of these machines be loose?
In addition to being uncomfortable in long aisles, players are also uncomfortable being put out on display for the other players. Perhaps they feel like they might become a target if their good luck is too visible.
One slot director I heard speak said that he tried to create “comfortable niches” for his players. Instead of being in a fish bowl, visible to most of the slot floor, players in his niches can be easily seen by only the other players in that niche.
Another theory about loose machine placement is that casinos place them in highly visible areas. Modern casinos still have highly visible areas, but the areas are visible to a smaller number of players. A loose machine in this area will influence fewer players than before.
The last change in the slot floor that I want to mention is perhaps the biggest change of all. Casinos used to have hundreds of slot machines. Now they have thousands. One slot director in Las Vegas said in an interview a few years ago that with so many machines on his floor, he didn’t have time to micro-manage them. He and his management decided the hold percentage they wanted for each denomination and he ordered payback programs close to that percentage for his machines. Furthermore, he said this was the common practice in Las Vegas.
As much as the slot floor has changed, the changes on the floor are dwarfed by the changes in the slot machines themselves. One thing that struck me about that picture of Bally’s is how all the machines look alike. They really do look like soldiers being inspecting, all standing at attention and in identical uniforms, or like rows of indistinguishable corn plants. In fact, it looks like there are only three different games in the 10 machines in the first row in the picture. Granted, the majority of the machines in Bally’s casino were Bally machines. Still I’m surprised by the lack of variety in the machines in the front row in the picture.
I heard that one theory why Americans have gotten heavier is that we have access to a wider variety of foods today than we had before. When meals consisted of the same thing time after time, it was easy to pass up second helpings of gruel and eat just enough to no longer be hungry. But now we have Chinese one night, Mexican the next, followed by Thai, burgers, pizza, and pasta -- it’s easy to overeat on our culinary trip around the world.
Just as variety in food creates desire, so does variety in slot machines. “Hey, I used to watch The Munsters all the time. I’ll try that machine.” “I never miss The Apprentice. I’ll give that machine a go.” “I played Monopoly all the time as a kid.” “I have a cat and a dog and a chainsaw and a toaster.”
Not only is there more variety in themes on machines, there’s also more variety in paytables. Back in the 1920s, a revolutionary change in slot machine design was paying an extra coin for a certain combination. Adding a hopper to the machine in the electro-mechanical era made it possible for the machine to pay larger jackpots itself instead of requiring a handpay from a jackpot girl. Adding a computer to the slot machine made it possible for today’s machines to pay modest jackpots of a few thousand coins all the way up to life-changing jackpots of millions of dollars.
The computer also makes it possible to add more gimmicks to machines. Gimmicks like “spin-til-you win,” symbols that nudge up or down to the payline, haywire repeat-pays, and double spin all add more variety and interest to the games.
Today’s machines are immeasurably more interesting and fun to play than those of even just a decade ago. Each new generation of machines has crisper graphics and better sound than the prior generation. Slot designers are working overtime to devise compelling bonus rounds that will keep players playing for just one more crack at the round. How many people playing Wheel of Fortune are trying to win the jackpot? Not many. Most people keep playing to get one more spin of the wheel.
Slot directors today don’t need to pepper their slot floors with loose machines to stimulate play. Today’s machines themselves generate more desire to play than seeing a player doing well.
Now I'll finish our discussion of where slot directors place loose machines with some additional thoughts, with a few anecdotes I've heard at slot seminars, and with what I think will be the final nail in the coffin of loose machine placement philosophies.
One of the placement theories says that tight machines should be placed near the table games because the table games players don’t like a lot of noise while they’re playing. Have the people putting forth this theory ever been near a craps table? A craps table with a shooter on a hot roll has to be one of the loudest places -- if not the loudest place -- in the casino. Craps players can be a boisterous lot even when the table isn’t hot. Okay, I can see players needing peace and quiet at blackjack tables (It’s difficult to count cards even in a quiet casino.), but not at craps, roulette, Let It Ride, and other tables. In any case, the casino can adjust the volume level on a machine. The slot director can put a very quiet, loose machine near the tables and not disturb a single table games player.
Another problem with following a loose machine placement philosophy is that it limits the flexibility slot directors have in moving their machines around on the slot floor. If the directors are going to give up a little bit in payback on some machines, they certainly will want to get their money’s worth and ensure that these machines are in locations where they’ll be played, be seen being played, and entice other players to play. Slot floors have only a limited number of high visibility areas. Slot directors won’t want to waste any of their high-paying machines in the more numerous less visible areas, where the machines won’t be encouraging other players.
Now I’d like to share some anecdotes I’ve heard at panel discussions during the big gaming show (first the World Gaming Congress, then the Global Gaming Expo) that’s held in Las Vegas each year.
First, one slot director described an experiment he conducted in his casino. He had a carousel of 5 Times Pay machines that all had the same long-term payback. He ordered new chips to lower the payback percentages on a couple of the machines to see if anyone would notice. The machines with the lower long-term paybacks received just as much play as the higher-paying machines. No player, furthermore, ever complained that some of the machines in the carousel were tighter than others.
In another seminar, a slot director shared the philosophy he used to place some machines that he had inherited from another property. These machines, he said, had lower long-term paybacks than the payback he usually ordered for machines on his slot floor. He said, 'I read the same books that the players read. I put these lower payback machines in the spots that the books said should have the high payback machines.'
My last anecdote is about a decision made by the slot director at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas many years ago. He was ordering 10 Times Pay machines for his slot floor and he was concerned about the low hit frequencies available for those machines. (Machines with multiplying symbols tend to have low hit frequencies, and usually the higher the multiplier, the lower the hit frequency.) The slot director was afraid that his players would think the machines were very tight because they hit so infrequently. He said that he ordered higher paybacks than he usually does for those machines in an attempt to offset the low hit frequency. The machines would still have a low hit frequency, but at least the average value of a hit would be a little higher than if he had ordered a payback percentage nearer the percentage he usually ordered. He hoped that would be enough to keep his players from thinking these were tighter than the other machines on his slot floor.
Although I think these anecdotes are the exceptions that prove the rule that some casinos at least order the same long-term paybacks for machines of a particular denomination, there is evidence that some casinos may not. In the first edition of Casino Operations Management, for example, Kilby and Fox list a number of “general philosophies that influence specific slot placement” including: “low hold (loose) machines should be placed in busy walkways to create an atmosphere of activity” and “loose machines are normally placed at the beginning and end of traffic patterns.”
They then say that “high hit frequency machines located around the casino pit area will create an atmosphere of slot activity.” I’m not sure whether they’re saying high hit frequency should or shouldn’t be placed near the pit. In any case, note that one philosophy said that loose machines create an atmosphere of activity and another said that high hit frequency machines also create an atmosphere of activity. This is the perfect segue into what I think puts the final nail in the coffin about loose machine placement theories.
There is no correlation between long-term payback and hit frequency. A low hit frequency machine can have a high long-term payback. High hit frequency machines, in addition, can have low long-term paybacks. Larry Mak, author of Secrets of Modern Slot Playing, recently queried the Nevada Gaming Control Board to find out the payback reported on penny machines. The Board said it was 90.167%. Most of the penny video slots have very high hit frequencies, yet the overall average long-term payback is very low.
The usual reasoning behind putting loose machines in highly visible areas is so slot players can see other players winning. Maybe we should be more precise here and say that players will see other players hitting and assume that they are winning because they are playing loose machines. But because there’s no correlation between hit frequency and long-term payback, these players can actually be playing machines with low long-term paybacks.
I don’t put much stock in loose machine placement theories, but I do believe slot directors may follow a hit frequency placement philosophy. Slot directors may try to place high hit frequency machines in visible areas to encourage play. This philosophy says and implies nothing about the long-term payback of the machines.
John Robison is the author of 'The Slot Expert's Guide
to Playing Slots.' His website iswww.slotexpert.com
by Steve Bourie
The Seminole Tribe of Florida has six casinos in the state: Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino-Tampa; Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino-Hollywood; Seminole Casino-Coconut Creek; Seminole Classic Casino-Hollywood; Seminole Casino-Brighton; and Seminole Casino-Immokalee.
All of their casinos offer slot machines and five of them also offer blackjack, as well as other kinds of house-banked card games. According to the Miami Herald, it was estimated those casinos generated about $2.3 billion in profits in 2016 http://www.miamiherald.com/entertainment/article166085722.html. Since the average U.S. casino generates about 65% of its profits from its electronic gaming machines, it would be fair to estimate that the Tribe’s machines earn about $1.5 billion a year for them.
The only other competition for the Tribe’s casinos are the eight local pari-mutuels in Miami-Dade and Broward Counties which all offer slot machines, but are not allowed to offer live table games, such as blackjack. All of these pari-mutuel casinos, also known as racinos, are in competition with the Seminole’s three Broward county casinos, but the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino in Hollywood alone generates more profits than all eight of the racinos combined.
Florida gaming regulations require all of the pari-mutuel casinos to report how much their slot machines actually pay back to the public. This “Average Payout Percentage” information is available to the public and can be seen on the state’s website at http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/pmw in the “Slot Revenues” section. Additionally, each racino must post a sign in the casino showing the average monthly payback percentage for all of their gaming machines. Usually, the average for all of the casinos is around 92.5%
The Seminoles are not required to release information on the payout percentages for any of their casinos and they keep this information a closely guarded secret. They say that their machines pay out at a rate comparable to the pari-mutuels, but no one knows for sure, and the topic is sometimes a source of controversy.
If you read reviews of Seminole casinos on Yelp, Tripadvisor, or on our website at americancasinoguide.com you will see some reviewers say they believe the machines are set to around 60%, or lower. As someone who has written about casino gambling for more than 25 years, I know that isn’t true. The procedure for deciding what a slot machine is set to pay back to the public is rather simple. When a casino orders a slot machine the manufacturer will offer them a choice of chips to put in the machine and that chip is what controls the long-term payback percentage in that machine. Generally, there are about six to eight different chips to choose from and the payback percentages can be as high as 98 percent to as low as 82 percent.
Casinos, almost universally, put the highest-paying chips in the highest denomination machines and the lowest-paying chips in the lowest denomination machines. This means that $25 slots will have chips returning around 95-98 percent and the penny machines will have chips returning around 86-89 percent.
The lowest payback I ever heard of for a chip was about 80 percent, so I knew that the 60 percent number in the user reviews was not correct, but could there be some way to find out what the machines at the Seminole casinos really paid back to the public? After a lot of research, I believe that I have correctly calculated this information and what follows is my story of how I did it, plus a simple formula to show how anyone can do it. Additionally, we’ll take a look at the returns on some specific machines at some Seminole Casinos and see how they compare to the returns at other casinos. Now, in order to start this discussion properly, you’ll first need some background information on how casinos work.
When discussing how casinos make money, it is important to know the term “theo,” which is short for theoretical. This is how a casino expects to make money on its games. It’s referred to as “theo” because it is a theoretical number that is not guaranteed. However, the casino knows that the longer you play, the more likely your loss will approach the theoretical win for that particular game.
As an example, if you play a slot machine that has a 10% theo, then the casino would expect to keep about 10% of all the money you play through that machine. So, if you played $1,000 through that slot machine, the casino would calculate its theoretical win as $100 because 10% of $1,000 is $100. Now, since this is gambling, anything can happen when you play that machine. You may win $600, or you may lose $400 and, actually, the casino itself doesn’t know what will happen. All they know is that as long as people continue to play that machine, the casino will end up keeping about 10% of the money that goes through that machine because the machine has a “theo” of 10%.
In order for a casino to calculate your total theo for your visit, and what you are worth as a player to them, your play must be tracked and that is done by the player’s club at each casino. All casinos have a player’s club where visitors can join and have their play tracked on the machines in order to earn “comps” such as free food, free drinks, free shows, free gifts, invitations to special events and more.
To track your play you are issued a card, similar to a magnetic-striped credit card, that is inserted into the machine and it will track your wins and losses, as well as the total amount of all your bets. Naturally, the more you play on the machines, the more free stuff you will get from the casino. When deciding how much to give you back in benefits for your play, the casino must first calculate your total theoretical loss to determine how much they have earned from you. Then, based on that total, they will rebate a certain percentage back to you in the form of comps and free play. The actual percentage rebated to the player is a trade secret for each casino but, again, it is always based on a player’s tracked theoretical loss.
I live only one mile from the Seminole Hard Rock Casino in Hollywood and I joined their Seminole Wild Card player’s club shortly after the property opened in 2004. Although I did not play much in the ensuing years, in late 2013 I began to play rather heavily and it continued through early 2017. My game of choice was video poker rather than slot machines because there is a skill involved in video poker and I used software to learn how to play my hands properly. Eventually, I played at an expert level that allowed the casino to have only a slight mathematical edge over me.
Overall, my results were pretty good as I hit quite a few royal flushes in 2016 and that helped me to come out ahead for my three years of play. In early 2017 the casino made some changes to their video poker games, which made them less desirable, and I stopped playing. During my period of play I used that opportunity to analyze the Seminole Wild Card Player’s club and, following, is what I discovered.
The set-up of the Seminole Wild Card Player’s club is somewhat unusual because at most casinos when you play a machine you will earn points based on the total amount of money you put through a machine. On some machines it may be that $5 earns one point, while on other machines it may be $10 or $25 earns one point.
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The Seminole Wild Card Player’s club is different because players don’t earn points on each machine, instead they earn comp dollars. As an example, for playing $10 through one machine you might earn six cents, while on another machine you might only earn three cents. So, if you ended up playing $1,000 for the day on the same machine, your comps would total $6 on the first machine, or $3 on the second machine. As a player, you wouldn't really know why one machine gave more comps, but you could correctly theorize that the machines that had a higher rate meant that the casino was making more of a theoretical win from you and that's why they could give you back more comps.
The comps you earned could then be spent like regular dollars at hotels, restaurants, bars, lounges and retail stores at any of the six Seminole Casinos. Besides earning comps, each day's play also earned you status credits and those enabled you to reach a higher player's card level. Interestingly, there was no information on a formula for how the status credits were earned. As a player all you knew was that you could check your account each day to see how many status credits you earned for your previous day's play.
The player's club only has three tiers: Platinum, Elite and X Card. All players start at Platinum and to reach Elite you need to earn 3,750 status credits within a three-month period. X Card is reserved for the casino's biggest players, but there is no public information available on what is needed to attain that level.
I easily attained Elite level and after tracking the comps and status credits I earned each day, within a few months I began to realize that the status credits actually represented my total theoretical loss for each day. I was able to confirm this through test play on certain machines, as well as speaking with other knowledgeable players.
Once I knew that the earned status credits represented my total theoretical loss I was then able to compare that number to the total comps I earned on that same day and I realized that there was a relationship between those two numbers. As an example, one day I earned $48.75 in comps and I was awarded 828 status credits. By multiplying $48.75 by a factor of 17 the result was 828. Another day I earned $30.83 in comps and 524 status credits. Once again, by multiplying $30.83 by 17 the result was 524. That relationship was absolute and no matter what day I played, I found that I could always multiply the amount of my earned comps by 17 to determine my status credits (theoretical loss) for that day.
Since I now knew how to calculate my theoretical loss for the day, based on the comps I earned, I then realized that I would be able to calculate what the casino had set as its theoretical payback percentage for any electronic game on the floor.
How to Calculate the Theoretical Payback Percentage on a Slot Machine - I believe that anyone can calculate the theoretical payback percentage on any gaming machine in a Seminole Casino by using a formula that I created. The key to calculating a machine’s theoretical payback percentage is to track how many comp dollars you earn for putting exactly $100 in play through a machine. For example, if you bet $1 a spin, just track how many comp dollars you have earned after making 100 bets. Once you know that number, you can simply multiply it by 17 and you will know the casino’s theoretical win rate for that machine. Deduct that number from 100, and you will then know the theoretical payback for that machine.
As an example, let’s say you put $100 through a penny slot machine and you earn 54 cents in comps. Just multiply .54 x 17 and you will get 9.18, which represents the casino’s theoretical win rate for that machine - 9.18%. Then, deduct 9.18 from 100 and you get 90.82 which would represent the casino’s theoretical payback percentage for that particular machine - 90.82%.
I found this method to be accurate and I tested it on dozens of machines at four different Seminole casinos. It should also work at the other two Seminole casinos since they all share the same player’s club. One word of warning, however, is that I found the method to only be accurate for single-denomination machines. If you play a multi-denomination machine the method cannot be relied upon to give you an accurate payback percentage for all of the denominations.
How Do Slot Paybacks at the Hard Rock in Hollywood Compare to the Other Local Casinos? In trying to determine an average payback percentage for slot machines at the Hard Rock in Hollywood, I realized that it would not be possible to get an actual accounting and I would just have to make an educated guess based on the results of playing some machines in different denominations.
Therefore, I randomly played 10 different machines throughout the casino in three different denominations: pennies, quarter and dollars. As mentioned previously, I had to play exactly $100 through each machine and in some instances it wasn’t possible to play exactly $100, so I might have gone over by a few pennies.
In the table below you can see the results for playing 10 random penny slots and the average theoretical return was 88.37%
| Date Played | Machine # | Name | comps earned for $100 coin-in | Theoretical Hold | Theoretical Payback |
| 30-Nov | 012714 10130 | Moon Maidens | $0.68 | 11.56% | 88.44% |
| 17-Aug | 040312 04892 | Quick Strike Mystery Rewards | 0.69 | 11.73% | 88.27% |
| 30-Nov | 010103 11114 | Desert Dawn | 0.59 | 10.03% | 89.97% |
| 17-Aug | 034106 09083 | Quick Hit Platinum | 0.64 | 10.88% | 89.12% |
| 17-Aug | 050907 10010 | Fu Dao Le | 0.69 | 11.73% | 88.27% |
| 30-Nov | 012106 11952 | Jungle Riches | 0.69 | 11.73% | 88.27% |
| 17-Aug | 013504 10609 | Super Wheel Blast Lion of Venice | 0.70 | 11.90% | 88.10% |
| 17-Aug | 013510 10618 | Wild Leprecoins | 0.70 | 11.90% | 88.10% |
| 17-Aug | 043702 08245 | Buffalo Special Edition | 0.72 | 12.24% | 87.76% |
| 14-Oct | 051502 12178 | Rumble Rumble Bison | 0.74 | 12.58% | 87.42% |
| Average | 11.63% | 88.37% | |||
In the table below you can see the results for playing 10 random quarter slots and the average theoretical return was 90.89%
Indian Casino Slot Machine Strategy
| Date Played | Machine # | Name | comps earned for $100 coin-in | Theoretical Hold | Theoretical Payback |
| 30-Nov | 067510 11231 | The Enforcer | $0.45 | 7.65% | 92.35% |
| 30-Nov | 032301 32091 | Triple Double Diamond | 0.53 | 9.01% | 90.99% |
| 30-Nov | 013704 09830 | Thunder Eyes | 0.54 | 9.18% | 90.82% |
| 30-Nov | 074701 11731 | Quick Hit Platnum Plus | 0.63 | 10.71% | 89.29% |
| 30-Nov | 101406 08598 | Cash Cove | 0.49 | 8.33% | 91.67% |
| 16-Oct | 064103 09534 | Colossal Cash Grand Dragon | 0.47 | 7.99% | 92.01% |
| 16-Oct | 034708 12048 | Double Hot Fire | 0.54 | 9.18% | 90.82% |
| 16-Oct | 075307 10059 | Black Diamond | 0.59 | 10.03% | 89.97% |
| 16-Oct | 101309 09950 | Mystery Rewards Glistening Jade - Rapid Hit Fever | 0.53 | 9.01% | 90.99% |
| 30-Nov | 075305 09528 | Crystal Star | 0.59 | 10.03% | 89.97% |
| Average: | 9.11% | 90.89% | |||
In the table below you can see the results for playing 10 random dollar slots and the average theoretical return was 91.40%
Indian Casino Slot Machine Secrets
| Date Played | Machine # | Name | comps earned for $100 coin-in | Theoretical Hold Hold | Theoretical Payback |
| 17-Aug | 075504 50787 | Spin & Win Instant Spin | $0.47 | 7.99% | 92.01% |
| 17-Aug | 069001 09079 | Quick Hit Platinum | 0.51 | 8.67% | 91.33% |
| 12-Oct | 069710 09348 | Wild Red Sevens | 0.44 | 7.48% | 92.52% |
| 12-Oct | 069707 09345 | Triple 777 Red Hot 3 Reels | 0.44 | 7.48% | 92.52% |
| 12-Oct | 041806 05563 | Black & White 7s | 0.47 | 7.99% | 92.01% |
| 30-Nov | 067804 10546 | Double Jackpot Lions Share | 0.59 | 10.03% | 89.97% |
| 14-Oct | 065405 10508 | Midnight Eclipse | 0.47 | 7.99% | 92.01% |
| 30-Nov | 068904 08728 | Dragons Luck | 0.59 | 10.03% | 89.97% |
| 30-Nov | 068105 10158 | Sky Rider | 0.58 | 9.86% | 90.14% |
| 16-Oct | 055307 50806 | Blazing 7s 3 Reel | 0.50 | 8.50% | 91.50% |
| Average: | 8.60% | 91.40% | |||
So, now that we have analyzed the theoretical payback percentages on these machines, how do they compare to the actual returns on slots at other South Florida casinos in those same denominations?
Well, unfortunately, Florida’s Division of Pari-Mutuel Wagering, which compiles the statistics on payback percentages for all racetrack casinos only releases information on the average payout for all machines within each casino and not for specific denominations. We did put in a public records request asking for a breakdown of those stats by denomination, but we received the following reply: “The Division does not maintain information responsive to the following request: slot machine gaming revenue reports by denomination (one cent, nickel, quarter, dollar, etc.).”
Since we couldn’t get information on payback percentages by denomination, it was not possible to compare the Hard Rock’s machines with those at the pari-mutuels. However, it was possible to make an educated guess about the overall returns on the Hard Rock’s machines. For the 12-month period from July 2016 through June 2017, the pari-mutuel casino with the highest average returns was Magic City at 93.55% and the lowest returns could be found at the Isle in Pompano where they averaged 90.91%. Therefore, based on the numbers shown in the tables above, I would have to agree that the Hard Rock Hollywood’s slot paybacks are “comparable” to those at other local casinos and they are not set to pay back at the low rates that some people would suggest.
How Do Returns on Machines at The Seminole Hard Rock Casino in Tampa Compare to Returns at Casinos in South Florida? On the American Casino Guide website visitors can leave a review for any U.S. casino and the Seminole Hard Rock in Tampa has gotten almost 200 reviews - https://www.americancasinoguide.com/florida/seminole-hard-rock-hotel-a-casino-tampa.html The vast majority of those reviews are complaints about how bad the paybacks are on the slot machines. The thinking seems to be that, once again, the machines are set to pay back at a very low rate, especially since the Tampa casino has no competition because the nearest non-Seminole casino is about 250 miles away. That sentiment seemed somewhat logical to me so I thought I would investigate further by making a trip to Tampa to visit the casino.
I arrived late in the day and I spent a few hours that evening, as well as a few more hours the next morning testing various machines using my formula. My thought was to find some of the exact same machines I played at the Hard Rock in Hollywood and to see if the theoretical payback percentages were lower. This turned out to be harder than I expected as I found it difficult to find the same machines in the same denominations. One other thing I noticed was that there did not seem to be too many penny slots. Instead, the vast majority of the lower denomination games were two-cent slots. This was not the case at the Hard Rock casino in Hollywood, where penny machines were abundant.
Eventually, I did find a few machines, in three specific denominations, that were the exact same as the ones I played in Hollywood and the table below shows how the results compared.
For penny games there were three machines I tested and, interestingly, all three had the same theoretical payback percentage as at the Hollywood Hard Rock.
| Date Played | Machine # | Name | comps earned for $100 coin-in | Theoretical Hold | Theoretical Payback | Location |
| 14-Oct | 051502 12178 | Bison Rumble Rumble | $ 0.74 | 12.58% | 87.42% | Hollywood |
| 23-Oct | 082802 05797 | Bison Rumble Rumble | $ 0.74 | 12.58% | 87.42% | Tampa |
| 17-Aug | 050907 10010 | Fu Dao Le | $ 0.69 | 11.73% | 88.27% | Hollywood |
| 23-Oct | 092206 6026 | Fu Dao Le | $ 0.69 | 11.73% | 88.27% | Tampa |
| 17-Aug | 070712 04056 | Buffalo Special Edition | $ 0.72 | 12.24% | 87.76% | Hollywood |
| 23-Oct | 043702 08245 | Buffalo Special Edition | $ 0.72 | 12.24% | 87.76% | Tampa |
Finding quarter games proved to be a bit harder. I only found two machines that were identical to ones at the Hollywood casino and, once again, the theoretical payback percentages matched up for both casinos.
| Date Played | Machine # | Name | comps earned for $100 coin-in | Theoretical Hold | Theoretical Payback | Location |
| 16-Oct | 075307 10059 | Black Diamond | $ 0.59 | 10.03% | 89.97% | Hollywood |
| 23-Oct | 324002 30380 | Black Diamond | $ 0.59 | 10.03% | 89.97% | Tampa |
| 30-Nov | 075305 09528 | Crystal Star | $ 0.59 | 10.03% | 89.97% | Hollywood |
| 23-Oct | 015205 30371 | Crystal Star | $ 0.59 | 10.03% | 89.97% | Tampa |
At the dollar level I found four machines that matched up with their Hollywood casino counterparts. On the first one, Triple 777 Red Hot Three Reels, the comps earned were the same as at the Hollywood casino. This was great because the comp rate on every machine was matching up perfectly, so far, but that soon stopped.
| Date Played | Machine # | Name | comps earned for $100 coin-in | Theoretical Hold | Theoretical Payback | Location |
| 17-Aug | 069707 09345 | Triple 7 Red Hot Three Reels | $ 0.44 | 7.48% | 92.52% | Hollywood |
| 23-Oct | 380605 50232 | Triple 7 Red Hot Three Reels | $ 0.44 | 7.48% | 92.52% | Tampa |
| 16-Oct | 055307 50806 | Blazing 7s Three Reel | $ 0.50 | 8.50% | 91.50% | Hollywood |
| 23-Oct | 040111 50330 | Blazing 7s Three Reel | $ 0.39 | 6.63% | 93.37% | Tampa |
| 17-Aug | 069001 09079 | Quick Hit Platinum | $ 0.51 | 8.67% | 91.33% | Hollywood |
| 23-Oct | 180209 50437 | Quick Hit Platinum | $ 0.41 | 6.97% | 93.03% | Tampa |
| 17-Aug | 075504 50787 | Spin And Win Instant Spin | $ 0.47 | 7.99% | 92.01% | Hollywood |
| 23-Oct | 353601 50197 | Spin And Win Instant Spin | $ 0.56 | 9.52% | 90.48% | Tampa |
On the three-reel blazing 7’s machine the comp rate was 39 cents, which would correspond to a theoretical payback percentage of 93.37%, which was higher than the 91.50% figure for the same machine in Hollywood. A similar thing happened with the next machine I tested: Quick Hit Platinum. The comp rate on this game was 41 cents which would equal a theoretical payback percentage of 93.03% which, again, was higher than the 91.33% figure for the same machine in Hollywood.
Then, on the last dollar machine I played, Spin & Win Instant Spin, the results were slightly worse. That machine gave 56 cents in comps, which would correspond to a theoretical return of 90.48%, versus the same machine in Hollywood which came in at 92.01%
So, interestingly, the theoretical payback percentages for the first eight slot machines in Tampa were either equal to, or better than, the same machines in Hollywood. This was very surprising as I thought they would be lower at the Tampa casino because they had no direct competition.
But what about all those player reviews complaining that the slots in Tampa paid less than the slots in Hollywood? Well, my research showed that the machines were set to pay back at about the same rate in both places. However, there didn’t seem to be quite as many penny machines in Tampa, most of them were 2-cents and higher, and this could offer an explanation.
Penny machines are the most common denomination found in U.S. casinos. For example, at the two Indian casinos in Connecticut, Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun, penny machines make up about 60% of all the slots on the floor. While I didn’t take an inventory of all the machines in Tampa I was struck by the fact that penny machines were not in abundance. Since the Tampa casino has no competition, it could be that they were forcing players to make a higher average bet simply by having fewer penny machines available. If so, a higher average bet would result in players losing their money faster, thus explaining the sour sentiments of some players. Keep in mind that the Hollywood casino would not be able to easily do the same thing because of competition from other casinos. If a player in Hollywood didn’t think there were enough penny games available they could just go to a different casino. A player in Tampa would not have that option.
The Green Machine Slot Odds
Now, looking back, it is true that one slot machine in Tampa did come in with a lower theoretical rate, but that could have simply been a mistake. Keep in mind that the casino knows what the chip in each machine is set to pay back to the public on a long-term basis and, in turn, they will set the player’s club comp rate to approximate that number. Sometimes mistakes are made and the rate could be set too high, or too low. That could be what happened here, or perhaps it was intentional and there was a specific reason for that particular setting.
In conclusion, I hope that everyone reading this report understands that it is not a complete analysis of all machines at either casino. To undertake such a project would have required a huge amount of manpower, plus a rather large bankroll to withstand the gambling losses that would be expected.
Average Slot Machine Odds
I am just one person who set out to investigate this subject as it is my area of expertise. I have been writing about payback percentages at casinos for more than 25 years and I believe that my work is accurate. Should anyone from Seminole casino operations want to present any further information on this subject I would welcome hearing from them. I would be also be glad to print any rebuttal that they might want to send to me concerning this article.